The State Department today posted their anticipated statement on adoptions from Vietnam.
Emphasizing their commitment to “continuing intercountry adoptions from Vietnam if possible” the statement warns,
In view of the processing time required in Vietnam from placement to the Giving and Receiving Ceremony, an adoption process begun now cannot be completed before the current Agreement expires. We do not know whether the Government of Vietnam will continue to process pending cases if the current Agreement expires before a new Agreement takes effect. Moreover, given concerns about the existing level of protection for children in Vietnam, it is unlikely that the Agreement can be renewed in its current form.
The State Department also posted a Q/A section regarding current issues in Vietnam adoptions. The questions are:
- What are the problems with the present Agreement that warrant a renegotiation of the MOU between the two countries at this point in time?
- Does the USG want to end all intercountry adoptions from Vietnam?
- Why is the U.S. Government issuing this warning?
- What steps has the USG undertaken to address concerns about fraud and baby-selling while it is negotiating a new MOA with the Vietnamese government?
- What is the USG doing about the families whose cases have been issued Notices of Intent to Deny (NOIDs)?
- What is the current status of the NOIDs?
- What is the USG’s goal regarding intercountry adoptions from Vietnam?
Click on any of the above questions to read the State Department answers, or click on the link to read the Q/A in its entirety.
38 Responses
Thanks for posting this. With the current wait starting at 12 months going as long as 24 months for many agencies, I asume that I will not be the first to say that this information is a little hard to swallow. (We have been on the list since November)
But in the end, it’s good news. The importance here is that the US and Vietnam do their best to insure ethical adoptions for both orphans and parents. Let’s just hope that the IAD has a little compassion for waiting families if the MOU is not renewed.
It makes me a bit nervous and optimistic at the same time.
I’m hoping that agencies that take advantage of parents and exploit children will be closed down.
I agree this info was very hard to swallow. Thank you Jessica and Synesthesia for making me see the positives of the warning. I recently switched agencies because I was leary of the ethics of my first agency. It is extremely important to keep adoptions ethical and transparent. I hope both countries can come to some kind of agreement in the next 6 months or so.
The statement from the DoS is a start and I think it is good they’re letting people know of the current risks in the Viet Nam program. But as a PAP whose dossiser has been in VN since Nov 07, I still have so many questions. First, if both sides are so committed to keeping adoptions going, what is the plan of action to make that happen before the current agreement expires? Both sides knows the expiration is coming and it sounds like both sides know what needs to happen to renew it. So, this begs the logical questions: What are the milestones that have been set? How can we know if progress is being made? It seems like such a black box right now from the PAPs’ perspective. I want concrete information on what everyone is doing to make this happen. In the spirit of transparency, etc. shouldn’t this information be communicated to PAPs and agencies?
Additionally, I know everyone has been saying they “hope” or “feel” the DIA would allow the dossiers that are logged in before the MOU expires to be finished out, but I’m so uncomfortable not having a definitive answer. In this situation, I don’t want someone’s gut feeling or hope. I want a definitive answer. In writing. Wouldn’t it make sense, as a contingency plan in the case that the MOU does expire, for the US Govt to clarify with VN on behalf of Americans with dossiers currently in Viet Nam what would happen to those families that are logged in but haven’t received a referral or finalized their adoption by Sept 1, 2008? What I’m looking for is a definitive official written statement that explicitly states what will happen to families at each of the various “in process” statuses (waiting for referral, waiting for I-600 approval, waiting for G&R, etc) if the MOU is not in place by Sept 1. Shouldn’t our Govt or the agencies we’re paying to represent us get this information on our behalf? VVAI moderators, how can we get this information?
I share your concerns, Amy. But at the end of the day, I don’t know if an official written statement really provides us with any kinds of assurances. I mean, if we get an official statement, and then VN decides to Not process according to that agreement, what kind of recourse would we have? None, I’m thinking. 🙁
Part of me – and be forewarned, it’s the cynical part – wonders that maybe we won’t get such a statment because the dossiers in VN are a bargaining chip for one side, or both sides in the negotiations for the MOU? I don’t know.
All I know is honestly I won’t feel secure until after I’m home with my child.
JMHO.
Although it is impossible to know what will happen in the future, I put weight in how Vietnam handled the “in process” families during the suspension effective 1/1/03. Then, families needed to have, 1) received a referral, and 2) been invited to Vietnam to submit their dossier by 12/31/02. So, “in process” meant that there was an identified child connected to a family with a dossier in Vietnam. The G&R did not need to have taken place prior to the shutdown; in fact, many G&R’s were conducted in early 2003. So, adoptions weren’t required to be “complete” by then, but two of the three most significant steps (dossier and referral) were required. If the Vietnamese follow a similar scenario, then I would think that families with dossiers logged-in on 9/1/08 but without referrals would not technically be considered in process. Basically, they are just waiting in line for a referral. It could take 12+ months for hundreds, if not thousands, of family dossiers to be matched, so a 9/1/08 deadline imposed by the Vietnamese wouldn’t really be a shutdown for them at all (except for logging in of new dossiers). Again, we really don’t know, but I believe seeing how the government handled the situation in the past is a fair barometer of how they might handle it in the future.
Gina, thank you for this information on what happened last time there was a shutdown. But I’m confused about “been invited to Vietnam to submit their dossier” – is this different than simply having your dossier logged in?
Thanks!
Prior to 1/1/2003, adopting from Vietnam was a two step process. People received a referral (usually photo and referral information), then flew to Vietnam to file the dossier in person. The G&R was usually scheduled about 40 days after the filing of the dossier. People who had completed the first trip (both received a referral and filed the dossier) were allowed to make the second trip for the G&R in early 2003. I don’t recall a formal invitation to submit our dossier – in late 2001, we made our first trip about 1 week after we received our referral.
Thank you! That helps. 🙂
I agree with Gina that “in process” will most likely mean “with referral” and not simply, “DTV.” I can’t see how they could consider the adoption system “closed” if 2000+ people are still allowed to complete their adoptions.
My frustration right now is that I have read statements by PAPs on a number of blogs and chat boards that parents who are logged in by August will be “safe”. This is said with such confidence that it scares me. I don’t know who is spreading this idea/rumor — the agencies?? My agency gave no such assurance at all. When I spoke with them, they admitted that nobody can know what will happen.
How can we stop the rumor about DTV parents being safe? I think it’s working to the advantage of agencies who can a) collect non-refundable deposits from those who will submit a dossier in the next few months but likely never complete the adoption and b) prevent DTV parents from jumping ship (and asking for their deposits back). This is surely a question of “adoption integrity” if agencies are spreading rumors that mislead PAPs.
Furthermore, if there are 2,000 Americans who have dossiers in VN, where is everyone on the boards? When we had discussions about gender, there were so many comments — it was a firestorm. Now we are talking about potentially shutting down the country (something that affects ALL of us) and the blogs, boards and chat rooms are relatively quiet. Are we all just screaming silently at home? I am shocked that there are only a few comments here and just a handful or so on APV.
Finally, my agency suggested that we start to write letters to our Congresspeople to put pressure on the State Dept to negotiate with VN. Can we start such a campaign on this site? I don’t see it starting anywhere else.
e., My agency has also given no such assurances. I spoke with them earlier this week, and they are not making any predictions about who is safe and I don’t think they are submitting any more dossiers. I think they are contacting all PAPs in the program and speaking to them individually about where they are in the process and their options….
Is that 2,000 number of dossiers strictly Americans or can it be the total, which would include other countries who adopt from Vietnam? I don’t know that it matters, but I’m just curious.
I think there’s any number of reasons for a lack of comments. I think a lot of people are tired, discouraged and depressed. I think the actual announcement may have been anti-climactic for some. I know I was prepped by my agency for the announcement. I also think after the NOIDs situation, people expected the worst? I don’t know, these are just my musings.
Alix, I should have put the 2,000 number in quotes. I read that elsewhere but I can’t vouch for it as fact. In that reference, it was 2,000 Americans. It may be a reasonable number. There are 42 agencies; I think the 2 or 3 biggest ones have about 200 on their list. My agency is small and only has about 25 families, so if you assume there is an average of 50 families with each agency you get to 2,000. But that is just a totally uneducated guess!
I had another thought today that now there will be an even bigger push to get referrals before August 31st, which could lead to even more unscrupulous acts by some agencies. Now everyone will be rushing to get in & out even faster than before…potentially creating even MORE of the problems that brought this on in the first place!
And I stand behind my belief that agencies want DTV families to think they’re “safe” so they don’t ask for money back. I’d love to know what other peoples’ contracts say — ours does not address this scenario at all and the agency says it’s non-refundable in this case.
I have been thinking a lot about where all the people are, why aren’t we hearing more on APV and other sites about this huge issue in VN adoptions. I think one big reason is that a lot of people spend a lot of their time on agency specific sites. There are very strong feelings about “my agency is ethical and nothing you can say will change my mind” talk, which has lead, I think, to the bigger boards being more quiet. I think that is a shame and could be very harmful given the current situation. We already know that some agencies are telling their PAPs that everything will be fine, it is just a warning and continue to take applications/money. People who don’t want to hear different opinions might not be talking about this on the bigger boards. When VN shut down in ’02, there were far fewer agency listservs, so these issues were discussed on APV and other bigger boards. The fact that there are still approx 26 families with NOIDs out there and this hasn’t been discussed much blows my mind.
I don’t think that the State Dept is actively trying to keep immigrant/our childre out of the country. I do think, and hope, that they are trying to put a stop to trafficking. Allowing some of the things that we have seen recently in VN adoptions to happen without questioning it can be pretty darn close to allowing trafficking. I would have rather seen the DOS apply more pressure earlier on, when the DIA started licensing agencies that were already know to be huge problems from before. But then the DIA (or people within the DIA) could well be a big part of the problem as well.
Once again, it is the children who suffer the most.
I believe there is some confusion about the 2000 number being used.
USCIS has received 2000 1600 A applications from families giving their intent to adopt from Vietnam. That doesn’t mean there are 2000 dossier in Vietnam at this time. I am sure that those 2000 folks are in various stages of the process.
Tad at http:\\adoptionbuzz.org is saying its 2000 dossiers yet to be matched. 🙁
e.,
I was thinking the SAME thing with regards to a mad rush for referrals, especially if the families considered “in process” must already have a referral in order to complete their adoptions. If baby buying was already going on, I’ve gotta imagine the ante was just upped.
I agree that the most logical conclusion is families must be holding a referral to be allowed to complete their adoptions, since 2,000 dossiers will take a few years to all be matched. Plus, people are still submitting dossiers even now.
As for why we’re all quiet on this one…I don’t know. I think we are all a bit depressed, saw it coming, it came, and now we’re just burned out or bummed out. It does affect all of us, and our kids, and it’s heart breaking. The idea of writing congresspeople to give our support for re-negotiation of the agreement is a good idea. It’s at least a place to start. A petition is another idea.
There is a great deal of concern about the famous “2000†number. We currently have less than a year of “sure†adoptions and historically neither Vietnam nor the US Gov. have processed this many dossiers in a single year. For the last few years only 200-ish children are processed through the system each year and adopted into American families. What I want to know is what will happen to the 1700-ish families that most likely will not finish their adoption by the end of the year?
About the “missing familiesâ€â€¦
The whole idea is just frightening. I am starting to wish that the warning statement had never been published. I don’t see what good exactly it has done. I have only noticed more panicked and frightened PAPs all over the net, busy phone lines for every agency and rampant rumors with little foundation. I’m all for transparency and ethical adoptions but to be honest… I’m exhausted. I don’t think I have a tear left in me, and I feel like a zombie left empty from the constant worry. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more PAPs like myself. I am honestly getting to the point where I don’t want to read anymore blogs, news groups, web sites or forums and would much prefer to crawl under the covers and go back to bed.
Thank you Jessica for putting into words exactly how I feel. All cried out, numb and an overwhelming desire to just stay in bed.
Laurie & Jessica, I hear what you’re saying about exhaustion, depresssion, etc. When I first started “digesting” this news last week, I spent 3 days in almost total silence at home; I could not even talk to my husband about it as I was speechless. But I feel as if I’m fighting now – fighting for my own family and fighting for the kids who need homes. It’s not a time to be silent, at least not for me. And I won’t give up because I’m tired. It’s just not that simple.
I am also worried that just as all agencies are now being lumped together by the DoS, all of the orphans are being viewed as “ayap infants” requested by impatient Americans. I really hope people won’t forget that SN and older kids are affected by this, too. If the US gov’t wants to crack down on the unethical agencies or provinces, fine, but why do all of us and all of the kids have to suffer for the actions of a few? That is my frustration and what I’m saying in my letters to Congress. I have been working on our adoption for 1.5 years; even with a request for an SN infant, I don’t assume we’ll have a referral before the summer so we may be locked out of Vietnam. I just hope those who are already home with their kids don’t forget about families like us — we are just like you, only a year later.
As for what will happen with the 1700 families, I assume that like us, they are starting to look at other countries, albeit with a very heavy heart and a big dose of cynicism.
I fear that the USCIS, as an arm of the Department of Homeland Security, has another agenda: to deter immigration. By all counts, they are the most inefficient branch of the government. The fact that they are not acknowledging I-600 receipts, going beyond the 60-day time period with no communication to PAPs, and generally treating U.S. citizens with hostility and suspicion confirms that at the end of the day, they do not have the best interests of PAPs or children at heart. They have a political agenda to prosecute and immigration quotas to meet. It is unfortunate that PAPs and their waiting babies have become their pawns.
I agree Alicia. Everyone was soooooo excited when the government got involved. Yes, the government is hear to “fix” all the problems and stop the “bad” agencies! Whoops! Read the blogs of the people going through this process right now. They are not hear to help anyone. Their goal is to stop adoptions. They think you are trying to smuggle in illegal aliens and want to stop it.
I agree with e. that we need to remember that this also effects toddlers and older children as well. But don’t you think there are many toddlers and older children because of the shutdown several years ago…those kids were “ayap” babies back then and now are older kids….if it shuts down again won’t that create more older kids waiting in the future??? Let’s hope that doesn’t happen again! There is too much as stake!!
First comment on here; have been reading this site for a few months. The news is very discouraging; IMO, it is tracking parallel to Guatemala last year: US statements of concern, perceived lack of response by the foreign government, uncertain prospects for how “in process” families will be handled…. My husband and I are looking at Plan B, which is likely to be domestic adoption, and quite possibly a non-caucasian child (we are caucasian). Realizing that everyone, of course, has their own feelings and comfort level about the makeup of their families, it is curious that there are, apparently, (two) thousands of us seeking a VN child, when there are many US children of minority races to be adopted. Perhaps the situation in VN will force us to further expand our acceptance of adopting children who don’t look like us.
I doubt very much that an end to VN adoptions will bring more parents to adopt from the US foster care system, regardless of the race or ethnicity of the children available for adoption.
Obviously, families in process to adopt from Vietnam (or China, or Guatamala or Ethiopia or Haiti) are willing to enter into trans-racial, trans-ethnic families.
I think families look to adopt internationally because of the uncertainty of domestic/foster care adoption, and the fact that foster children are often not made available for adoption until their biological parents (or occasionally their temporary foster parents) have damaged them in horrifying ways.
My partner and I long ago accepted our children would not look like us. We are not Asian, therefore your statement is a bit odd. If you are suggesting that people adopt Asian children because they are closer to ‘white’, that’s even more bizarre. How do you know all of us are ‘white’ ? My husband is not! We would also be open to domestic adoption in the US but it’s not so simple. I worked in the foster care system as an advocate for children and it’s a very, very flawed. I was not ready to deal with it. International adoption carries stresses but the US system most definitely has it’s own as well.
Having been in line for a VN referral since December, we are obviously quite worried about this newest development. We started the adoption process 2 1/2 years ago and sat quietly in line for China until our agency finally allowed us to pursue a different program. We have paid fees to our VN agency and feel very stressed over having to sit back until September to find out if ou adoption will even have a chance of working out. Several people have suggested that we pursue another program, but honestly, how does one even afford to do that never mind the emotional attachment we hvae with thinking a child is waiting for us in Vietnam. I too noticed the lack of emails about this issue on the boards when I find numerou emails being sent back and forth over very small conversational topics. I guess we may not be ready t really deal with what this all might mea. Good luck to us all that this works out for us all!
Does anyone know of any agencies taking new applications from VN?
I called around and many are on hold. Mandala is still taking them, I find that odd. Does anyone know any other agency still taking them?Why would Mandala be doing this?
I know of atleast one “ethical” agency still accepting applications and I am shocked. For an agency to completely ignore warnings from the DOS and continue to accept applications and money is so wrong, IMO.
Jane, regarding US adoptions. I personally would not consider domestic adoptions for one minute and it has absolutely nothing to do with looks. I would just crumble if I fell in love with a child, loved that child for years then one day got a phone call from bio mom, dad, or grandmothers that they want their child back. The US allows this and I couldn’t live with that fear hanging over my head.
Jane – Trust me my kids (born on China and Vietnam) don’t look like me……when we are out some people ask me if I am babysitting….. I am sure anyone on this board has gotton many rude comments. I would agree with Steph… we could not take a chance of a bio parent taking them away…it would kill me.
Hi all ~ This is all very confusing/frustrating…..it would be helpful, I think, to give some sort of guideline/advice as to what parents should expect right now at different stages of the process….i.e. about to send dossier to Vietnam, dossier already sent, waiting for referral, have referral but waiting to send I-600, I-600 sent, I-600 sent ~but not yet approved, etc….Perhaps this is not possible right now considering all the volatility, but communicating realistic expectations would be enormously helpful. We currently have a referral, but have not yet been advised to send in our I-600….what does this mean for us, and many other families who are in a similar situation? Above all else, it is, unfortunately, the children who are caught in all of this…..~
What do you mean you have not been advised to send in your I600 M.E.?
Has your paperwork been processed by Vietnam and approved? If so, there shouldn’t be any reason *not* to submit your I600 to CIS a.s.a.p.
Isabella,
Some agencies don’t have you start your dossier until you receive a referral. Would that have something to do with it?
Steph and Isabella~
We sent in our dossier long ago, and will be adopting an older/waiting child…..so, in our case, the referral was not in the traditional sense of receiving the referral by the agency, but of initiating the acceptance of a waiting older child ~ and, in our case, the I-6oo rules changed almost
the same week of our acceptance….so lots changed with the I-600 and DIA rules all at the same time.
thanks for explaining, best of luck to you.
The agency we are about to sign with is accepting a limited number or applicants into this program. From what I was told the director of the agency took a trip to VN this last week to discuss the issues and was told that as long as the USCIS received the papers before sept 01 they would be grandfathered in. Now reading this i dont know what to think, should we home for the best and start our homestudy or should run the opposite way as fast as we can ?
Depends on which agency told you this – there are some I would trust more than others, care to share?
I would say however that I believe Ethica’s statement that until an “official” annoucement is made by the DOS or DIA you should proceed with extreme caution no matter what the agencies tell you.
Let’s hope for a statement soon – maybe wait another month or so if you can??
Or, if you have the money start a concurrent adoption with another country as a plan B…
Hang in there!!!
The only one I have heard about is Mandala .
CHI is also telling clients this. We are not with them but I read it on another posting. Our agency said they were getting all dossiers in and hoping it might be true, but they didn’t guarantee anything. They were pretty clear that neither they nor anyone else could predict what would happen as according to them, there has been no official announcement and there are 2 different countries’ beauracracies involved so it’s complicated. I guess some agencies are saying they have been told this directly, but has anyone seen an actual letter or direct quote? And if VN closes, then whatever USCIS says does not matter if the DIA won’t process the adoption.
If I wasn’t logged in with VN, I’d be looking elsewhere — just my two cents but if you’re open to another country that is more stable, it might be advisable.